JS: You launched the constellation workshop in 2008 ¨C a programme that we are now offering for the 17^th time this year with great success. How did the idea come about back then?

HK: I first learnt about systemic constellations back in the 1990s during my own studies. Since then, I have experienced time and again, both with my own issues and in counselling, supervision and coaching, the powerful effects that constellations can have. Particularly in work that is very linguistically orientated, it is extremely useful to move away from a purely verbal orientation and pay attention to the physical perceptions that arise in the room and how these can be used to look at a current issue or challenge with fresh eyes. This is exactly what is possible in constellations. I then started to work with this format in my seminars at the university. The students gave me a lot of positive feedback. This led to the idea of offering a constellation workshop for students and practitioners at the university.

JS: At that time, constellations were nowhere near as accepted in the university context as they are today. What was the initial influx of participants like? Was there any resistance from the university to this method, which was labelled as "esoteric"? What was the reaction of your colleagues?

HK: I experienced little resistance, but rather great interest and support. Because my approach has always been one that is scientifically sound. For example, I took up the work of Prof Dr Matthias Varga von Kib¨¦d and Insa Sparrer, two pioneers of constellation work, who founded this concept in the form of "Systemic Structural Constellations" in terms of both epistemology and practical theory. I myself have also developed a scientific framework that makes it clear how systemic constellations can be described and explained critically and rationally, namely as an integration of constructivist creation of meaning, structural perception of space and physical resonance, such as empathy. There has been university research on this since the 1990s. One of the first doctoral theses, for example, was written in the mid-2000s at the University of Witten/Herdecke by Peter Schl?tter: "Familiar language and its discovery". In this thesis, the structural perception of space in particular is tested and validated through numerous experiments.

JS: Systemic constellations are recognised with the certificate course and the workshop are now a very popular further education programme at ZEW. Both courses have been fully booked since the beginning: To what do you attribute this great interest in systemic constellations?

HK: Systemic constellations are a powerful method for all contexts in which systems need to be reflected upon and analysed with regard to possibilities for change. And that applies to psychological systems as well as social systems. We can therefore use constellations to deal with very personal issues in therapy and coaching as well as organisational, team and social issues. The application of this method is therefore extremely broad. Many people have now recognised this. Especially in a world in which we think and talk a lot, it is usually very helpful and opens up new perspectives if we utilise our perceptions more holistically, if we pay attention to what our physical perception in space conveys to us. This is because we humans are ¨C at least in terms of our potential ¨C extremely sensitive beings with an enormous capacity for perception, which we can access in constellations in a way that rarely happens in everyday life. And when we combine these perceptions with the collective intelligence of a group, this is probably one of the most powerful methods of psychosocial work of all. Many people have now recognised this.

JS: ZEW has been offering practice-orientated and certified training opportunities for 30 years now. What would you like to see from ZEW in the coming years? Where do you currently see important trends that should also be taken up in the area of lifelong learning? What do you wish for ZEW?

HK: ZEW has always had its finger on the proverbial pulse of the times. I hope that you will retain this sensitivity to current issues. In my opinion, the future will be very much about reformatting the world of work in the wake of rapidly developing artificial intelligence. The question will be what role human intelligence still plays when almost everything can be rationalised by artificial intelligence. This is precisely where I see the future potential of systemic constellations. They also expand the classic concept of intelligence, which is usually thought of as a cognitive-rational ability, to include AI. However, human intelligence is much more extensive. It is also about emotionality and interpersonal, even social resonance and the intelligence that arises from this. I think that the future will be about supporting people in developing skills that enable the integration and utilisation of these holistic abilities in the world of life and work. I am excited and optimistic about the ZEW programmes that will come onto the market in the next few years.

The interview was conducted by Julia Sammler.